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These are my personal opinions, not those of my family members (or husband) and certainly not what I think everyone has to believe or they are unintelligent. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. This is mine. If you choose to comment on this post with an opposing opinion I am okay with that. Isn't it great that we can all have different opinions on such an important issue and still be friends? I think so. If you choose to comment with anything that name calls or is derogatory towards me or people who disagree with you, I will delete the comment. Examples:
I think that gay marriage is good because of.... (okay)
I think that people who don't support gay marriage are homophobic (not okay)
People who support gay marriage obviously aren't mature enough to see... (not okay)
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I support equality. I think that there are certain things that everyone has a right to regardless of gender, race, religion or sexual preferences. I believe that everyone has the right to a safe work environment, education, and the abilities to buy or rent property and space. The problem I have been having is that there are some things that people just decide that they have a right to, but they don't. For example I will play the marriage card. Marriage is a sacred institution. It is not an unalienable right. But this post is not about gay marriage. It's about feminism.
I am a Mormon. I have found that I am kind of an all or nothing gal. When I was Wiccan, I studied it, I lived it and I loved it. I am still informed about other religions and scientific findings. One of my favorite things about being a Wiccan was that they believed that God used religion as a tool to get close to you. If you could not accept Him or get close to Him in one religion He would direct you to another. I still believe that. I needed to be a Nature Based Wiccan in order to build a relationship with someone until I could just say "okay" to everything, even if it doesn't make sense. I had to trust in Him that if He told me to do something that I didn't understand or didn't seem fair, I could just say "well you must see a bigger picture than I do" and just say yes. So when God told me I should join the LDS church again, I said a very confused, frustrated, relived, happy, and angry "yes".
Faith is a concept that I feel is lost on most people now a days. Everyone wants all of the answers and everything has to be fair and make sense. So if someone wants something in the church, or if they don't like or understand something, they leave. Because instead of believing in a God who might know something you don't, if it doesn't make sense to their mortal souls, then they leave. I think it's sad.
So back to my original statement. I am kind of an all or nothing gal. I became Mormon and still dream about a few more tattoos, but will never get them. I am trying to not swear so much, I am facing addictions that I didn't know I had until I tried to quit, I am working on all areas of following the rules and guidelines set by the LDS church. I believe that the prophets are called by God. I believe that they do their best to lead this church with integrity and inspiration.
So feminism in the church. I just have a few ttings to say about it. I am going to start by saying that during church is not the time or place to talk about what you don't like about the church. People go to church to feel the spirit and listen to the lord, not to hear about the petty politics of men. Facebook, forum sites, blogger, social media, parties, discussions with friends and family are all appropriate times to discuss what you don't like about the church. But inside Sunday School is not the time or place. It is super disrespectful. So please stop spouting your feminist woes while we are trying to worship and then getting upset when nobody wants to listen to you. You are being disrespectful. So you might not get a good response.
Faith is a concept that I feel is lost on most people now a days. Everyone wants all of the answers and everything has to be fair and make sense. So if someone wants something in the church, or if they don't like or understand something, they leave. Because instead of believing in a God who might know something you don't, if it doesn't make sense to their mortal souls, then they leave. I think it's sad.
So back to my original statement. I am kind of an all or nothing gal. I became Mormon and still dream about a few more tattoos, but will never get them. I am trying to not swear so much, I am facing addictions that I didn't know I had until I tried to quit, I am working on all areas of following the rules and guidelines set by the LDS church. I believe that the prophets are called by God. I believe that they do their best to lead this church with integrity and inspiration.
So feminism in the church. I just have a few ttings to say about it. I am going to start by saying that during church is not the time or place to talk about what you don't like about the church. People go to church to feel the spirit and listen to the lord, not to hear about the petty politics of men. Facebook, forum sites, blogger, social media, parties, discussions with friends and family are all appropriate times to discuss what you don't like about the church. But inside Sunday School is not the time or place. It is super disrespectful. So please stop spouting your feminist woes while we are trying to worship and then getting upset when nobody wants to listen to you. You are being disrespectful. So you might not get a good response.
Now I am going to ten examples of LDS Feminist arguments (specifically pointing to sexism in the church and why women should get the priesthood) and just say my thoughts on them.
1- Men are given more opportunities and more attention in the church.
I disagree wholeheartedly. There are flaws with in the young men and women's programs. The young men and women have an equal ward budget (usually, but in cases where that isn't true, the young women usually have the higher budget). When it comes to the youth, men are allowed additional fundraisers only because they go through Boy Scouts of America (and this whole additional fundraisers thing is only an issue in Utah and some parts of Idaho). As for adults the Relief Society has a budget for their retreats and activities, while the Elders Quorum and High Priests don't. Wards that do have budgets for the adult men have much larger ones for the women. Now let's put budgets aside and looks at the fact that women have whole education weeks and speaker retreats and such exclusively for women. Men do not have the resources and opportunities in the church like that.
2- I was denied entrance into the Priesthood Session last stake conference because I am a woman.
2- I was denied entrance into the Priesthood Session last stake conference because I am a woman.
Actually it's because you don't hold the priesthood. Also have you read the talks given at the priesthood sessions? Because they aren't a secret. Most of them consist of prophets railing on the men of the church for being idiots. Most of them say something along the lines of (and of coarse I am paraphrasing a tad) "Stop masturbating and watching porn. You are cheating on your wives. You are the one who will not be able to make it into the highest rank of the celestial kingdom, not her. Stop being stupid and start leading your wives and your families with integrity and dignity. Stop making her do all the work." So yeah, I don't really want sit in on that party. I'd much rather go to the General Women's Conferences and listen to them talk about working hard for your family, whether it be at work or home, and be given inspiring messages that uplift me.
3- People Judge me for wearing pants to church.
I am going to tell you about one of the hardest lessons I have ever had to learn about in life. I am just not that important to other people. When I started going back to church I was super self conscious. I was certain that every one there was judging me because I wore tank tops and lived with my husband one month before we were married and had tattoos and used to be this, that, or the other thing. I was certain people were judging the hem lines of my skirts and ostracizing me. Then one day it hit me like a ton bricks, no body cares about me that much. Nobody cares what my hem lines are like. Nobody there was thinking about what I wore yesterday or who I used to be. It's kind of silly for me to think that I am so special that in a room full of over 100 people that anyone is paying that much attention to me.
We see this issue come up all the time in high schools. Kids have a tons of friends who love them, but they feel that they are different and judged and they get depressed. I had a lot of people in high school that I knew that I couldn't imagine how they could have any kinds of problems at home. They were beautiful, got good grades, talented and always seemed sunny. Then one of those people whom I thought I knew (but apparently not that well) killed himself. Then I got to know my sister better. I realized that many people saw her the way I saw others in high school, even though she is one of the most conflicted and lonely stress cases I know. I also talked with a friend I have known since 8th grade. She opened up and told me that she was loving college because there are more people "like her" there. We continued into this thought and she said that she was always "judged and knew that people were always making fun of her" because she was a little overweight and masculine. She also had hobbies that were commonly perceived as masculine. I was really surprised by this. I was the queen of backstabbing and gossip in high school. I had something negative to say about everyone, yet I couldn't recall ever thinking something negative about her. In fact I couldn't recall hearing anyone say anything negative about her. She had tons of friends and everyone obsessed over how talented and sweet she was.
I opened my eyes and realized that we look at everyone else and we notice the similarities. Then we look at ourselves and we notice all of the differences. Often those similarities and differences don't exist, or are things other people don't notice or care about, but we notice and care about them. Then we make ourselves feel ostracized and lonely based off of those insignificant differences. It doesn't stop after high school.
We see this issue come up all the time in high schools. Kids have a tons of friends who love them, but they feel that they are different and judged and they get depressed. I had a lot of people in high school that I knew that I couldn't imagine how they could have any kinds of problems at home. They were beautiful, got good grades, talented and always seemed sunny. Then one of those people whom I thought I knew (but apparently not that well) killed himself. Then I got to know my sister better. I realized that many people saw her the way I saw others in high school, even though she is one of the most conflicted and lonely stress cases I know. I also talked with a friend I have known since 8th grade. She opened up and told me that she was loving college because there are more people "like her" there. We continued into this thought and she said that she was always "judged and knew that people were always making fun of her" because she was a little overweight and masculine. She also had hobbies that were commonly perceived as masculine. I was really surprised by this. I was the queen of backstabbing and gossip in high school. I had something negative to say about everyone, yet I couldn't recall ever thinking something negative about her. In fact I couldn't recall hearing anyone say anything negative about her. She had tons of friends and everyone obsessed over how talented and sweet she was.
I opened my eyes and realized that we look at everyone else and we notice the similarities. Then we look at ourselves and we notice all of the differences. Often those similarities and differences don't exist, or are things other people don't notice or care about, but we notice and care about them. Then we make ourselves feel ostracized and lonely based off of those insignificant differences. It doesn't stop after high school.
I noticed all of the things I had done that didn't fit the Utah Mormon "norm" and felt judged for it. But the reality is the only person judging me, was me. I realized that I didn't know the lives or pasts of most of my ward members. I didn't know how they met their spouses or their living arrangements or sexual history. I also realized that I didn't care. So where do I get off thinking that everyone else cares about my life more then I care about anyone else's? So instead of deciding that people have nothing better to talk, think or worry about than you wearing slacks to church, think again. We don't care.
4- Heavenly Mother is out there, so why is it taboo to talk about her?
There is no doctrine on that. Heavenly Mother is not mentioned once in the Bible or Book of Mormon. A lot of people have had the idea that this is to protect her from the disrespect that others have given God, but that is not doctrine. Although it is an idea that I very well understand, and have only understood it for less than a year.
I am married. When I talk to other people (be it family members, friends or otherwise) and they say something disrespectful or demeaning about me, then I am annoyed or irritated, but I am okay. But if someone says something rude or demeaning about my husband, they are going to wish in about 5 seconds that they had never met me. I know the same feelings are prevalent in my husband. I loved my husband before we were married. He was always my best friend. But literally the day after we got married everything was different. I wish I could explain it better, but I simply can not. You get married an all of the sudden everything changes.
I have been told this happens a few times in your life. When you get married, when you get sealed in the temple, and when you have children. I have only accomplished one of those things, but I can't imagine the other two not effecting me in a similar way. This feeling of not accepting disrespect for your spouse is usually very prevalent in healthy marriages. I understand why (if this is the case) God wouldn't want his wife at the forefront of religion. People make fun of God, take His name in vain, and disrespect Him every day. If I were Him I wouldn't put Her out there either. But this is just a musing. I have a few other ideas as to why we don't hear much about Her, but they are very LDS specific ideas, so I am not putting them on this public blog because I don't want to say anything that would reflect badly on the church.
I have been told this happens a few times in your life. When you get married, when you get sealed in the temple, and when you have children. I have only accomplished one of those things, but I can't imagine the other two not effecting me in a similar way. This feeling of not accepting disrespect for your spouse is usually very prevalent in healthy marriages. I understand why (if this is the case) God wouldn't want his wife at the forefront of religion. People make fun of God, take His name in vain, and disrespect Him every day. If I were Him I wouldn't put Her out there either. But this is just a musing. I have a few other ideas as to why we don't hear much about Her, but they are very LDS specific ideas, so I am not putting them on this public blog because I don't want to say anything that would reflect badly on the church.
5- "Certainly Heavenly Mother is above disrespect"
I put that one in quotes, because it has been said to me exactly like that on 3 separate occasions. Has anyone here heard of the "Wrath of God"? Because He isn't exactly this super sunshiney, happy-go-lucky, giggly guy. God has feelings. And when we disrespect Him and turn away from Him, He doesn't appreciate it. If you read the bible God kills lots of people. I mean you can say that wars did a few times (although most of the ones in the bible were wars fought that could only have been won with a lot of God's help) but if you've ever heard of Noah and the Ark then you know that God sometimes just kills people because He is sick and tired of their crap.
There was a famous actress that swore all of the time. She was known for playing edgy, off the wall characters and most of her scripts swore more than they didn't. She was once on a talk show where Jay Leno asked her about her Christian roots. She said that she was very Christian and read the Bible as often as she remembered to and went to church when she could. He literally looked at her and said "that is so interesting" and chuckled. She then announced that while she does swear all up and down the stage she will not say "oh my God". If it is in the script she makes the writer omit it, or she wont take the part. She said "It is a commandment that we do not take the lord's name in vain, so I do not."
Apparently God cares about respect enough that He made it a commandment that you don't disrespect Him! God has feelings. And I can only imagine that Heavenly Mother does too. And I while I am sure that She could take the disrespect just as well as He could, I am also sure that She doesn't want to, and she understands Her husband's desire for Her not to. But this is something that one simply can not fully understand until you get married.
There was a famous actress that swore all of the time. She was known for playing edgy, off the wall characters and most of her scripts swore more than they didn't. She was once on a talk show where Jay Leno asked her about her Christian roots. She said that she was very Christian and read the Bible as often as she remembered to and went to church when she could. He literally looked at her and said "that is so interesting" and chuckled. She then announced that while she does swear all up and down the stage she will not say "oh my God". If it is in the script she makes the writer omit it, or she wont take the part. She said "It is a commandment that we do not take the lord's name in vain, so I do not."
Apparently God cares about respect enough that He made it a commandment that you don't disrespect Him! God has feelings. And I can only imagine that Heavenly Mother does too. And I while I am sure that She could take the disrespect just as well as He could, I am also sure that She doesn't want to, and she understands Her husband's desire for Her not to. But this is something that one simply can not fully understand until you get married.
6- Thinking that it's wrong that women don't have the priesthood isn't an attack on the church or the women in it.
If you listened to the LDS General Conference for October 2013 the prophets did address this issue. Most of them stated that they had all prayed and fasted about it and did not feel like it was what God wanted them to do. So if you believe that it would be super cool for women to have the priesthood or if you think that you would like to have the priesthood then that's fine. But if you think that our church is sexist because they are denying women the "right" to hold the priesthood then that is an attack. I will tell you why.
First of all, you remember how in the first paragraph I talked about rights? I used the example of marriage, and I said I don't believe it's a right that everyone has just for being human. I feel the same way about the priesthood. The ability to hold the priesthood is sacred and I do not believe that anyone has the right to hold it just for being human. It's like if I had a bowl of candy and a bunch of little kids wanted one, but I would only give it to half. Well those kids may be upset I didn't give them candy, but they don't have right to it. It's my candy and I can give it to whomever I please.
Now back to the main point of this idea, I believe that this church is run by leaders called by God who are doing their best to lead this church with integrity through revelation from the Lord. They all said they fasted and prayed about this issue. They said God said no. So if you think that it is wrong women don't have the priesthood and this church is sexist then you either believe God is sexist or you believe our leaders are corrupt, sexist and power hungry and want to maintain authority over women. That is most definitely an attack to those of us who believe otherwise.
I think it'd be pretty cool to ordain women to hold the priesthood but I look at it another way. I am one of the kids who didn't receive the candy. I don't know why and I am bummed about it sometimes, but I understand that the guy who has the candy has a lot more experience than me, and if he says I can't have any then I trust that he knows best.
As for being an attack on the women in the church a lot of people feel like the church has created a mold that women need to fit into, and that the women that don't fit into this mold feel ostracized. I already talked a while ago about women feeling ostracized by little things like being a career woman and being more masculine. I am here to talk about that mold. It is offensive to me to say that I fit into a mold. I am really young and I do not believe that my life, my journey, my love for others and myself, my talents, my spirit, and who I have become and who I am becoming can fit inside of a mold. That is so demeaning. Think about it for a minute. A mold is something that is basic and used to create hundreds of copies of one thing. How would you like to be thought of as somebody who just came from the same mold as millions of other women? Someone who's whole life and person fits inside of a typical mold. I don't fit into that and I have never met anyone who does. Even "Utah Mormons" are all different. I don't fit into a mold, so telling me I do just because I want to be a stay at home mom one day while my husband works feels like an attack.
7- Men are needed for more than procreation and the priesthood
This argument stems off of my idea that we are created differently. I believe God loves us the same, and we have the same amount of importance, but we are create differently. There is an idea that is pretty popular now a days that we all need to be independent. A lot of people think you need to be %100 stable and independent in order to be in a healthy relationship. That is something I disagree with wholeheartedly. This idea of independence is something that the world has fostered. God says "Form families, couples, wards, communities, and homes. Build relationships. Lean on each other." For this purpose I believe God created men and women with different chemicals, body functions, roles, responsibilities and tendencies so that they complement each other. He created us differently so that we had to lean on each other to create a family and home.
8- Heavenly Mother is a Goddess, so we should be able to pray to her just like God
That is wrong. Gordon B. Hinkley gave an awesome talk on this where he says in it:
"... in light of the instruction we have received from the Lord Himself, I regard it as inappropriate for anyone in the Church to pray to our Mother in Heaven. The Lord Jesus Christ set the pattern for our prayers. In the Sermon on the Mount, He declared 'After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.’ (Matt 6:9)"
He continues in the talk later saying:
“I have looked in vain for any instance where a President of the Church, from Joseph Smith to Ezra Taft Benson, has offered a prayer to ‘our Mother in Heaven.’ I suppose those who use this expression and who try to further its use are well-meaning, but they are misguided. The fact that we do not pray to our Mother in Heaven in no way belittles or denigrates her... I may add that none of us can add to or diminish the glory of Her of whom we have no revealed knowledge." (link to this talk below)
So I guess if you feel like you know better than the prophet of the church then go right ahead. But once again realize that for those of us who are fiercely loyal to our faith you are deciding you know better than to follow this council which in our eyes comes from God. So to some of us over here it looks like you are saying you know better than God. I am not saying I think you are going to Hell because you think you are above God. I think just like Gordon B Hinkley said you have good intentions, but you are misguided.
9- I just don't understand why we can be given concrete answers as to why we can't have the priesthood. Obviously the vagueness is a sign of our oppression.
9- I just don't understand why we can be given concrete answers as to why we can't have the priesthood. Obviously the vagueness is a sign of our oppression.
I am told that we are given many of these answers in the temple. So wait I guess. But if you aren't looking for them, you won't find them. If you have decided that you are right and your heart is not open for guidance on the subject, then you wont perceive the answers as answers, and you wont get the guidance you need. This goes for anything in life. If you have decided something and refuse to change your opinion on it what so ever, then you have hardened your heart in regards to that subject. Just like Laman and Lemuel had angels come and tell them they were wrong and they needed to follow Nephi, they swiftly forgot because when you harden your heart on something not even God can get through to you. And besides if you truly believe that our leaders are corrupt then you can't worthily go to the temple anyways. So I guess you are out of luck.
10- Women in the church are being oppressed whether they like to believe it or not
I would like to take a minute here to define the word Oppressed. In the Oxford dictionary it defines oppression as "prolonged cruel or unjust treatment or control" I looked up this word 6 times. All 6 of those definitions used the word cruel and 5 of them used the word unjust. So I continued with
this definition hunt to find what constitutes just behavior (because when I searched unjust it only said "behavior that is not seen as just"). Just behavior was defined as "treatment deserved or
appropriate in the circumstances" Does it say anything about stuff being "fair"? No. It doesn't. Justice isn't always fair. And perhaps under our human circumstances it is in fact just that women do not have the priesthood. But because we are incapable of seeing the bigger picture, we have to trust God and our leaders.
In addition to that I have never seen or heard of men being cruel to women in the church. Cruel being defined as "willfully causing pain or suffering to others feeling no concern about it" I personally have not had anyone emotionally or physically be cruel to me in this church while feeling no emotion about it. I can't imagine a bishop would not feel emotion in a disciplinary council, or while listening to anyone pour out their sorrows and confess all their sins, nor when taking disciplinary action. So stop with the oppression stuff okay? Slaves were oppressed. Jews during World War 2 were oppressed. Women in the church? Not so much.
If you feel like women in the church are treated unfairly, then that's up to you. You could instead choose to trust in someone who might know more than you do and see a bigger picture. But if instead you feel like women are entitled to the priesthood and it is unfair for them not to have it. Go for it. But just know that we are not being oppressed.
So those are my top 10 issues with LDS Feminism. I would like to say that I love my religion, my family and my life. I have a great deal of respect for people who stand up for and defend what they believe is true. I feel like Christians, men, and families are being attacked. I am fine with people standing up for their beliefs, but I am going to stand up for mine too. I am proud to be a woman but I do not feel I am entitled to anything more than I have. I understand that there are some people who think I am incapable of things because I am a women, but I know that there are also people who believe the same of Matt because he is a man. I have advantages that men will never have and I choose to love myself and the things that I have because I am a women, than lament the things that I do not because I am not a man.
RELATED RESOURCES:
This is the article I mentioned when it comes to praying to heavenly mother.
Daughters of God by Gordon B. Hinkley
October 2013 LDS General Conference Talks
RELATED RESOURCES:
This is the article I mentioned when it comes to praying to heavenly mother.
Daughters of God by Gordon B. Hinkley
Oxford Online Dictionary
Get off the Hill
